The Wilted Rose

Charting Labour meltdown 2007-2010

Afghanistan – time to withdraw

John McCain just admitted on BBC newsnight that during the Obama Afghan surge ‘casualties will rise.’

This is just not acceptable. Enough of our young kids who are serving in the army have returned in coffins.

No, it’s time to withdraw British troops from Afghanistan rather than spilling more blood for a doomed mission.

Even Des Brown, defence minister, is stepping down from parliament; perhaps he can’t stomach the stench of blood.

It’s quite simply time to withdraw.


2 December, 2009 - Posted by | politics | , , , ,


  1. So you would rather have the Taliban regain their pre 9/11 grasp on Afghanistan?


    There are reasons why America is in Afghanistan. Some say it is to rid the country of the Taliban’s threat to overthrow the fledgling democracy and to destroy Al Qaeda’s ability to launch another 9/11. While this is true, the other critical reason rarely discussed to length has to do with Pakistan’s stability.

    The Taliban’s objective is to split the Pashto-speaking frontier provinces from Pakistan and join them with Pashto-speaking areas in Afghanistan to create a nation called Pashtunistan. The bombings in recent months and the daring attack on a police academy near Lahore were designed to avenge the excesses of Pakistani forces in the frontier area. Slowly the Taliban are moving to achieve their objective. Today Sharia law, tomorrow a separate homeland and later full nationhood.

    Al-Qaida has its own objective amidst the turmoil – to grab a nuclear bomb or nuclear material and threaten the world. The Pakistani military is much more Islamic today than it has been in the past. It is possible that when pressured with religious zeal soldiers may put faith ahead of their duty. That could be the beginning of the end of U.S. and British-supplied security of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons. Individual soldiers are more prone to religious propaganda than their command structures; therefore they need to be watched.

    The day a nuclear device ends up in al-Qaida’s hands will be a catastrophic day for the world. A dirty bomb may not appear in a city overnight, but it could be used to blackmail the United States, for example, forcing it out of the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the entire Muslim world. India could have a nuclear war at hand.

    In any case, it is no longer safe to trust terror-ridden Pakistan with nuclear materials. No amount of security can prevent their disappearance if the people guarding them are compromised. Al-Qaida, bent on acquiring nuclear materials, is a serious threat to Pakistan. It can no longer be taken lightly.

    Comment by Ben | 2 December, 2009 | Reply

  2. I share many of your concerns, but not only is the Taliban largely on the Pakistani side, but it is doubtful if the surge will destroy a force that is endemic in Afghan society, i.e. there are little boys in entire villages growing up to fight the Americans and Brits.

    The US encouraged the truce with Sinn Fein/IRA – they’ll never win in Afghanistan, and more blood will be spilt.

    But then oil is worth more than blood to the US and UK governments. So much for ‘Yes we can’.

    Comment by Armchair Sceptic | 3 December, 2009 | Reply

  3. So you would be fine with our leaving the theater and just let the threat of Al Qaeda get Pakistan’s nukes?

    If so, I’m certainly glad the decision to withdraw is not up to you.

    That’s the think about this topic. Most Americans are happily oblivious to the nature of this threat. This is gravely serious. The job in Afghanistan isn’t done; the Taliban still reign in the region aided by the Taliban and vise versa, Pakistan’s government is unstable, the Taliban came within a hundred miles of Pakistan’s nuclear storage facilities only 2 years ago, and most Americans don’t seem to care about the threat that represents to this country.

    Maybe we deserve what we get. Maybe only after a dirty bomb – or worse – goes off in lower Manhattan will America “get it” and pull their collective heads out of their a** and turn of “Dancing with the stars” and finally get serious about this. But hasn’t that always been the case with American? We like to wait until our house is on fire before we get a clue something is just not quite right. We have to be the biggest collection of idiots on the planet.

    God help us.

    Comment by Ben | 3 December, 2009 | Reply

  4. But the United Kingdom is a sovereign state – we may yet unilaterally withdraw.

    British people are mostly against the war because we don’t think it can be won, we don’t like the major loss of troops, and we were lied to by Blair and are being lied to by Gordon Brown, who claims it is to stop terrorism.

    It’s about oil.

    Comment by Armchair Sceptic | 3 December, 2009 | Reply

  5. RE:we don’t like the major loss of troops
    If you don’t like the loss of troops out there defending us, will you like the loss of innocent civilians in the U.K. after they’ve been withdrawn from the fight?

    Are you willing to risk innocent lives at home, the economic consequences, the political fallout and the resulting loss of freedom from new security measures at home just to prove your point?

    Comment by Ben | 3 December, 2009 | Reply

  6. Oj oj this is very naive post.

    Comment by 13th spitfire | 3 December, 2009 | Reply

  7. September 29, 2008.

    Comment by Ben | 3 December, 2009 | Reply

  8. It’s very disappointing. President Obama now appears to be a zombie running scared of Rush Limbaugh and other cranky right wingers in the Republican Party. Sarah Palin ain’t president yet, and ain’t gonna be – I hope. Instead of getting out of the hell-hole of Helmand and bringing all of our boys home, Mr Obama and Mr Brown (backed by Liam Fox) have effectively prepared us for ever more losses – and nothing will have been achieved. God help us, for neither Brown nor the Tories are. And, before anyone says otherwise, the Liberals are no better.

    Comment by notoharecoursing | 4 December, 2009 | Reply

  9. notoharecou – If your comment about “It’s very disappointing” applies to the video of Obama, keep in mind he said these things about Afghanistan as a candidate, not as president. If you missed his statement during that time, then I understand your disappointment; you didn’t know. But for many, people did hear what he was saying – about many things – but elected to brush them aside and voted for him anyway, just to distance themselves from the status quo. These are the people who have no right to be surprised. They should have given their right to vote a little more respect than they did.

    Comment by Ben | 4 December, 2009 | Reply

  10. In the UK apparently the Conservatives are considering announcing that, if returned to Government next year, they will withdraw British troops from the Afghan theatre in spring 2011.

    So it may be a question of “when”, not “if”, they are withdrawn. We shall see; but for now, it is really worrying to see so many of our soldiers dying.

    Comment by Armchair Sceptic | 4 December, 2009 | Reply

    • RE:it is really worrying to see so many of our soldiers dying.
      As it should be.

      But think about what is going to prevent the next attack in the U.K. When will it come?

      Just because you have a party pandering to a support base, it does nothing toward solving the problem still there to be solved.

      When people wake up to this problem they correctly realize this is about an ideology.

      Watch this video. In it you will see an imam preaching from the Qur’an and quoting Muhammad.

      He is not throwing out his opinion. He makes that point as well. He IS telling his viewers a good Muslim must kill Jews. Whether they occupy Palestine or not.

      Comment by Ben | 4 December, 2009 | Reply

      • To be clear, this cleric or imam (hard to tell) is quoting from the Qur’an. He reiterates the message is not his; it is Muhammad’s as it is written in the Qur’an.

        Comment by Ben | 7 December, 2009 | Reply

  11. His is a twisted interpretation of the Qur’an, and any Muslims I know do not hold these views. The problem is that the terrorist attacks in the UK were alleged to have been committed by “homegrown” bombers, without any connection to Afghanistan or Al-Qaeda…

    Comment by Armchair Sceptic | 4 December, 2009 | Reply

    • It can never be classified simply as a twisted interpretation when these are in the Qur’an to be read verbatim.

      Sura 5.51:

      O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

      Lesson : Do not befriend Jews, Christians. They are unworthy.

      Sura 3 – Al-E-Imran (MADINA) : Verse 140

      If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allâh may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allâh likes not the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong¬doers).

      Lesson : It instructs revenge.

      Do not confuse this with similar verses in the Old Testament such as the phrase “an eye for and eye.” which does not instruct revenge. In the Old Testament, it teaches that restitution belongs to the offender and not the offended. It teaches a person who has injured the eye of another is instructed to give his or her own eye in compensation. At the root of this principle is that one of the purposes of the law is to provide equitable retribution for an offended party. It defined and restricted the extent of retribution in the laws of the Old Testament.

      Sura 8.12:

      When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

      Lesson : Behead, maim and kill disbelievers

      Sura 9.123:

      O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

      Lesson : Fight against disbelievers (non-Muslims); Regard them as evil and unworthy of kindness.


      A more complete list of the hate filled Qur’an’s teachings can be found here.

      Comment by Ben | 7 December, 2009 | Reply

      • I wonder whether these parts of the Qur’an are a bit like parts of the Old Testament who applied only to Israelites at the time ? And I say that as an evangelical Christian who doesn’t agree with the teachings of Islam. Is there not a sort of “reform Islam”, not just Sufism (I have a friend and political colleague in the West Midlands who is a Sufi, an English chap who converted to Islam), which many more westernised Muslims hold ?

        What I am saying is that, though I recognise that terrorists, jihadists etc try to use the Qur’an to justify their actions, they really should not!

        Comment by Armchair Sceptic | 9 December, 2009 | Reply

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